Comments for ie:missional http://iemissional.com teaching. glocalizing. living. serving. repenting. incarnating. loving. repeating. Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:04:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 Comment on The Fog of War by Strider http://iemissional.com/2008/06/26/the-fog-of-war/#comment-2068 Strider Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:30:47 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=118#comment-2068 Well, basically then as now our state dept knows next to nothing about culture or anthropology. We wanted to give the Russians a bloody nose in the 80's- and they deserved it as well- so we funded so called freedom fighters. But we purposely funded the most outrageous guys we could find. There were more moderate guys to fund- but we chose guys like Osama not thinking at all about what would happen after the war was over. After it was over the country completely disintegrated- kinda like what will happen to Iraq when we finally leave. There are a lot of guys who wanted Afghanistan to lose and they stepped up and made it happen. Masood took Kabul and began eliminating Hazaras. Then Hikmatyr came in and bombed Kabul- something even the Russians did not do. Then Masood was forced out by the Taliban. Our brilliant state dept. boys were still hard at work and they saw the Taliban as an opportunity to stabilize the country so they backed them with all the foresight they have always shown. The Taliban brought peace to Afghanistan with the sword but Masood and his boys continued to fight and kept 10% free in the north. Finally, we decided to side with the Russians and both governments backed the northern alliance and Masood keeping them alive but never giving them enough to win. Saudi, Iran, and Pakistan backed the Taliban and Russia, the US, and Iran backed the northern alliance- yes, I said Iran twice they have always done this even as they are doing it now in Iraq. This placed Afghanistan in a permanent civil war with no way for either side to win. Then God stepped in. Osama orchestrated the 9/11 attacks and this forced the US to go in a clean up. We offered the support to the Northern alliance they needed and the Taliban were defeated- in Afghanistan. Masood was killed on 9/9 two days before the attacks which was likely a judgment of God on him for his treatment of the Hazaras. At this point our administration completely lost all reason and attacked Iraq instead of finishing the job they started. That then is Central Asian history according to Strider. Well, basically then as now our state dept knows next to nothing about culture or anthropology. We wanted to give the Russians a bloody nose in the 80’s- and they deserved it as well- so we funded so called freedom fighters. But we purposely funded the most outrageous guys we could find. There were more moderate guys to fund- but we chose guys like Osama not thinking at all about what would happen after the war was over. After it was over the country completely disintegrated- kinda like what will happen to Iraq when we finally leave. There are a lot of guys who wanted Afghanistan to lose and they stepped up and made it happen. Masood took Kabul and began eliminating Hazaras. Then Hikmatyr came in and bombed Kabul- something even the Russians did not do. Then Masood was forced out by the Taliban. Our brilliant state dept. boys were still hard at work and they saw the Taliban as an opportunity to stabilize the country so they backed them with all the foresight they have always shown. The Taliban brought peace to Afghanistan with the sword but Masood and his boys continued to fight and kept 10% free in the north. Finally, we decided to side with the Russians and both governments backed the northern alliance and Masood keeping them alive but never giving them enough to win. Saudi, Iran, and Pakistan backed the Taliban and Russia, the US, and Iran backed the northern alliance- yes, I said Iran twice they have always done this even as they are doing it now in Iraq. This placed Afghanistan in a permanent civil war with no way for either side to win. Then God stepped in. Osama orchestrated the 9/11 attacks and this forced the US to go in a clean up. We offered the support to the Northern alliance they needed and the Taliban were defeated- in Afghanistan. Masood was killed on 9/9 two days before the attacks which was likely a judgment of God on him for his treatment of the Hazaras.
At this point our administration completely lost all reason and attacked Iraq instead of finishing the job they started.
That then is Central Asian history according to Strider.

]]> Comment on Taking a Break by art rogers http://iemissional.com/2008/06/29/taking-a-break/#comment-2066 art rogers Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:59:25 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=119#comment-2066 <i>"I know, I know. I don’t really write enough any more to warrant a break, but still…"</i> Well, there's an understatement. I pray God's richest blessings on Beth's new household, and for peace and comfort to yours as she "leaves and cleaves." “I know, I know. I don’t really write enough any more to warrant a break, but still…”

Well, there’s an understatement.

I pray God’s richest blessings on Beth’s new household, and for peace and comfort to yours as she “leaves and cleaves.”

]]> Comment on Taking a Break by Kevin Bussey http://iemissional.com/2008/06/29/taking-a-break/#comment-2065 Kevin Bussey Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:03:02 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=119#comment-2065 Enjoy and blessings on the wedding. I don't even want to think about that. Enjoy and blessings on the wedding. I don’t even want to think about that.

]]> Comment on The Fog of War by Tom Bryant http://iemissional.com/2008/06/26/the-fog-of-war/#comment-2064 Tom Bryant Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:38:43 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=118#comment-2064 Marty, I was there between late 70 and Feb/73. I was mostly on a fire base training various tribal groups to fight. ('yards and hmong) It was basically like the forts in the old west... only not as successful :-) especially when the US left them high and dry with the peace accords. Enjoy your break. Marty,
I was there between late 70 and Feb/73. I was mostly on a fire base training various tribal groups to fight. (’yards and hmong) It was basically like the forts in the old west… only not as successful :-) especially when the US left them high and dry with the peace accords.

Enjoy your break.

]]> Comment on Taking a Break by Todd http://iemissional.com/2008/06/29/taking-a-break/#comment-2063 Todd Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:10:34 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=119#comment-2063 Say it ain't so! Blessings on the wedding preparations. Traveled that road once with our oldest and one day will with our youngest. Enjoy the moment. Say it ain’t so!

Blessings on the wedding preparations. Traveled that road once with our oldest and one day will with our youngest. Enjoy the moment.

]]> Comment on The Fog of War by Marty Duren http://iemissional.com/2008/06/26/the-fog-of-war/#comment-2060 Marty Duren Sun, 29 Jun 2008 00:22:21 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=118#comment-2060 Tom- I had forgotten about your tours in 'Nam. When were you there and what were your responsibilities? Chuck- I'm already on the run. Strider- Always good to hear from Middle Earth. Can you expand a little on how we owed it to Afghanistan to go in and clean up the mess? Tom-
I had forgotten about your tours in ‘Nam. When were you there and what were your responsibilities?

Chuck-
I’m already on the run.

Strider-
Always good to hear from Middle Earth. Can you expand a little on how we owed it to Afghanistan to go in and clean up the mess?

]]> Comment on The Fog of War by Marty Duren http://iemissional.com/2008/06/26/the-fog-of-war/#comment-2058 Marty Duren Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:01 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=118#comment-2058 Guys, I had a lengthy response composed to each and forgot to enter the stupid code. I'm going to have to try again later. Shoot. Guys,
I had a lengthy response composed to each and forgot to enter the stupid code. I’m going to have to try again later.

Shoot.

]]> Comment on The Fog of War by Strider http://iemissional.com/2008/06/26/the-fog-of-war/#comment-2056 Strider Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:38:50 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=118#comment-2056 There has been a lot of discussion on 'just war'. Yeah, there is such a thing- no, Iraq is not an example of one. Afghanistan is. We caused their problems by funding maniacs like Osama back in the 80's and we owed it to them to go in a clean up our mess. The result is that Afg is now open to the gospel and many are coming to faith. You know a tree by its fruit. Iraq was not a threat to us WMD or no. We attacked it unprovoked for reasons that I do not comprehend. The result is a country where the gospel can hardly get in and penetrate. Many are trying at great personal costs. But the truth is we have shut that door for now. God will open it again and we had better be ready to move but in the meantime I am praying that our leaders make better decisions. I am thankful for America and I am a patriot but I much more concerned with the Kingdom of God and its conquest of earth. I look forward to the announcement from the 7th angel in Rev 11 when he cries out that the kingdoms of this world have become the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ. There has been a lot of discussion on ‘just war’. Yeah, there is such a thing- no, Iraq is not an example of one. Afghanistan is. We caused their problems by funding maniacs like Osama back in the 80’s and we owed it to them to go in a clean up our mess. The result is that Afg is now open to the gospel and many are coming to faith. You know a tree by its fruit. Iraq was not a threat to us WMD or no. We attacked it unprovoked for reasons that I do not comprehend. The result is a country where the gospel can hardly get in and penetrate. Many are trying at great personal costs. But the truth is we have shut that door for now. God will open it again and we had better be ready to move but in the meantime I am praying that our leaders make better decisions. I am thankful for America and I am a patriot but I much more concerned with the Kingdom of God and its conquest of earth. I look forward to the announcement from the 7th angel in Rev 11 when he cries out that the kingdoms of this world have become the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ.

]]> Comment on The Fog of War by Chuck Nation http://iemissional.com/2008/06/26/the-fog-of-war/#comment-2054 Chuck Nation Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:21:01 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=118#comment-2054 I agree there is, in theory at least, the possibility of conducting a "just war," but can you give me a legitimate, irrefutable recent example. (Recent as in the last 50 years or so; and don't say the "war on terror" which is actually a war *of* terror) Whether or not war leaders are believers is irrelevant (Whose side is God on? haha). Incompetence, I think, is a given. If I kill you in a war--I'm competent; if you kill me--I'm incompetent! War is chaos and "war is hell"(Sherman), and there's nobody righteous enough or competent enough to keep that from being true. Peel away the patriotic blather and you will find, generally, that war is a for-profit business--profit for some, loss for others. Generally, the wealthy promote and fund the wars and profit from them, while the (relatively) poor fight the wars and are the losers(My widowed secretary's Vietnam-vet husband died in a U.S. hospital at age 35 from agent orange poisoning.) How many rich guys do you see on the battlefield, in the trenches, carrying a rifle? War is expensive. War is business. Somebody has to pay for it. The biggest expense, I believe, is the investment of our sons & daughters. I thank God for every soldier and for our military machine that is DEFENDING us from all the goofballs in the world that want to hurt us. But it grieves me when good men and women with good intentions become the pawns of racketeers and hucksters in suits who are just out to make a buck at their expense. As a kid, when my teachers tried to negotiate playground wars at school they always seemed to concern themselves with the issue of justice by asking "who started it," and why. A just war is one where if you mess with me, my family, or my friends, we're gonna fight and I'll kick your ass; otherwise I'll leave you alone and agree to disagree. I love you in Jesus' name. An unjust war is one that somebody else starts. Btw, I've got my bottle rockets ready. I agree there is, in theory at least, the possibility of conducting a “just war,” but can you give me a legitimate, irrefutable recent example. (Recent as in the last 50 years or so; and don’t say the “war on terror” which is actually a war *of* terror)

Whether or not war leaders are believers is irrelevant (Whose side is God on? haha). Incompetence, I think, is a given. If I kill you in a war–I’m competent; if you kill me–I’m incompetent! War is chaos and “war is hell”(Sherman), and there’s nobody righteous enough or competent enough to keep that from being true.

Peel away the patriotic blather and you will find, generally, that war is a for-profit business–profit for some, loss for others. Generally, the wealthy promote and fund the wars and profit from them, while the (relatively) poor fight the wars and are the losers(My widowed secretary’s Vietnam-vet husband died in a U.S. hospital at age 35 from agent orange poisoning.) How many rich guys do you see on the battlefield, in the trenches, carrying a rifle?

War is expensive. War is business. Somebody has to pay for it. The biggest expense, I believe, is the investment of our sons & daughters. I thank God for every soldier and for our military machine that is DEFENDING us from all the goofballs in the world that want to hurt us. But it grieves me when good men and women with good intentions become the pawns of racketeers and hucksters in suits who are just out to make a buck at their expense.

As a kid, when my teachers tried to negotiate playground wars at school they always seemed to concern themselves with the issue of justice by asking “who started it,” and why.

A just war is one where if you mess with me, my family, or my friends, we’re gonna fight and I’ll kick your ass; otherwise I’ll leave you alone and agree to disagree. I love you in Jesus’ name.

An unjust war is one that somebody else starts.

Btw, I’ve got my bottle rockets ready.

]]> Comment on The Fog of War by Tom Bryant http://iemissional.com/2008/06/26/the-fog-of-war/#comment-2053 Tom Bryant Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:41:28 +0000 http://iemissional.com/?p=118#comment-2053 Good thoughtful post. I did 2 combat tours in Viet Nam. I too have lots of questions concerning a just war. And not many answers. And the longer the Iraq war goes on the more questions float in my brain. I support the war still, because we have soldiers there. But, I am really conflicted. However, for me, I would hesitate in listening to anything McNamara says. He wrote in his biography that he knew that the war was unwinnable even when he was Sec of Def, but lacked the courage to say so. Of course, now that he gets paid for writing, he feels he can admit his cowardice ... for a price. That to me is the greater war crime. Good thoughtful post. I did 2 combat tours in Viet Nam. I too have lots of questions concerning a just war. And not many answers. And the longer the Iraq war goes on the more questions float in my brain. I support the war still, because we have soldiers there. But, I am really conflicted.

However, for me, I would hesitate in listening to anything McNamara says. He wrote in his biography that he knew that the war was unwinnable even when he was Sec of Def, but lacked the courage to say so. Of course, now that he gets paid for writing, he feels he can admit his cowardice … for a price. That to me is the greater war crime.

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