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	<title>Comments on: The Impending Disintegration of American Denominationalism</title>
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	<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/</link>
	<description>teaching. glocalizing. living. serving. repenting. incarnating. loving. repeating.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Marty Duren</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1481</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Duren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 10:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1481</guid>
		<description>Joe-
Well said.  I've used that declining church illustration many times myself.  The SBC, for instance, has is not gaining momentum at present, but has forward motion to carry it a good while longer, ever slowing as it goes.

Doesn't mean there's life, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe-<br />
Well said.  I&#8217;ve used that declining church illustration many times myself.  The SBC, for instance, has is not gaining momentum at present, but has forward motion to carry it a good while longer, ever slowing as it goes.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t mean there&#8217;s life, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Smith</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1476</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 02:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1476</guid>
		<description>Norman -

I'm sure Danny Akin's thoughts and expressions are genuine. And if so, he and those sharing his sentiments may yet provide hope for 'The Convention' and its future. Problem is, he just restated , nearly verbatim, what Stetzer's research has pointed out. I didn't see Dr. Stetzer's article as a 'doomsday' prophecy as much as merely stating fact and giving us all a great big "IF, THEN" scenario... "IF we continue to lose young leaders, infight, and fail to focus on the gospel, THEN there is little hope." 'The Convention' can survive, or manage, just like a declining, dying or dead church. As long as 12 people continue to show up and pay the electricity bill each month, and someone is there to preach, it will 'survive.' 

Unfortunately, I don't think that's enough for the bulk of biblical followers of Christ... and I'm not sure that they'll hang around long enough to find out if the exodus, fighting, and focus are going to change and right the ship.

By the way, the article was very good. Thanks for the effort and the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norman -</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Danny Akin&#8217;s thoughts and expressions are genuine. And if so, he and those sharing his sentiments may yet provide hope for &#8216;The Convention&#8217; and its future. Problem is, he just restated , nearly verbatim, what Stetzer&#8217;s research has pointed out. I didn&#8217;t see Dr. Stetzer&#8217;s article as a &#8216;doomsday&#8217; prophecy as much as merely stating fact and giving us all a great big &#8220;IF, THEN&#8221; scenario&#8230; &#8220;IF we continue to lose young leaders, infight, and fail to focus on the gospel, THEN there is little hope.&#8221; &#8216;The Convention&#8217; can survive, or manage, just like a declining, dying or dead church. As long as 12 people continue to show up and pay the electricity bill each month, and someone is there to preach, it will &#8217;survive.&#8217; </p>
<p>Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s enough for the bulk of biblical followers of Christ&#8230; and I&#8217;m not sure that they&#8217;ll hang around long enough to find out if the exodus, fighting, and focus are going to change and right the ship.</p>
<p>By the way, the article was very good. Thanks for the effort and the link.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Duren</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1473</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Duren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 21:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1473</guid>
		<description>Norman-
Thanks for the link.  Nice job on the interview.

Danny is one of the SBC's best and brightest, though we are probably in disagreement over the future of the SBC, it will be because of men like him that it will survive...if it does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norman-<br />
Thanks for the link.  Nice job on the interview.</p>
<p>Danny is one of the SBC&#8217;s best and brightest, though we are probably in disagreement over the future of the SBC, it will be because of men like him that it will survive&#8230;if it does.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1471</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1471</guid>
		<description>All the chatter here and elsewhere about denominational fragility got me interested enough to see what a local SBC leader might have to say about things. Here is the story from an interview with Danny Akin yesterday.
http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2008/05_08_2008/ne08052008danny.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the chatter here and elsewhere about denominational fragility got me interested enough to see what a local SBC leader might have to say about things. Here is the story from an interview with Danny Akin yesterday.<br />
<a href="http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2008/05_08_2008/ne08052008danny.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2008/05_08_2008/ne08052008danny.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lucas Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1424</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucas Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 04:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1424</guid>
		<description>If only denominations had been on the same page as Jesus in His public ministry; Sharing the Gospel through loving relationships. I believe the solution to the culture drive religion today is God's people reaching out through human relationships with prayer, service and evangelism. A very simple process. Denominations have complicated what Christ taught us. After recieving our " cheap grace " we have shut the door behind us and never looked back on how God wants us to be His instruments in changing a lost and hurting world. That world, your world is as close as your neighbors fence, as close as the doctors office, as close as the convienance store and as close as the mall you shop in.
  Jesus told the woman at the well that there would come a day when she would not worship on the mountain or down in the synagogue but would worship in truth and spirit. We have arrived at this time in history. Denominationalism is on the way out and faithful Christians will find a way to honor God through Christ with their service of witness to the world we live in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If only denominations had been on the same page as Jesus in His public ministry; Sharing the Gospel through loving relationships. I believe the solution to the culture drive religion today is God&#8217;s people reaching out through human relationships with prayer, service and evangelism. A very simple process. Denominations have complicated what Christ taught us. After recieving our &#8221; cheap grace &#8221; we have shut the door behind us and never looked back on how God wants us to be His instruments in changing a lost and hurting world. That world, your world is as close as your neighbors fence, as close as the doctors office, as close as the convienance store and as close as the mall you shop in.<br />
  Jesus told the woman at the well that there would come a day when she would not worship on the mountain or down in the synagogue but would worship in truth and spirit. We have arrived at this time in history. Denominationalism is on the way out and faithful Christians will find a way to honor God through Christ with their service of witness to the world we live in.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Bussey</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1418</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Bussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1418</guid>
		<description>I think the new leaders in the church are people like Lifechurch.tv.   They are doing the "One Prayer" and have over 600 churches signed up.  They also work with ARC (association of related churches).   Creative people like me are drawn more to those who say "yes we can" than to those who say "we've never done that" or "no."  We will just take our creativity elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the new leaders in the church are people like Lifechurch.tv.   They are doing the &#8220;One Prayer&#8221; and have over 600 churches signed up.  They also work with ARC (association of related churches).   Creative people like me are drawn more to those who say &#8220;yes we can&#8221; than to those who say &#8220;we&#8217;ve never done that&#8221; or &#8220;no.&#8221;  We will just take our creativity elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Duren</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1416</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Duren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1416</guid>
		<description>Joe-
Speaking specifically of the SBC, I believe that Drs. Draper and Chapman's collective call for younger leaders involvement were the last chance for the future of the denomination  The unwillingness of the old guard to institute reform and the disinterest of the younger leaders to inherit their fathers' Buick has brought us to this point.

And, yes, I believe it is the answer to many prayers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe-<br />
Speaking specifically of the SBC, I believe that Drs. Draper and Chapman&#8217;s collective call for younger leaders involvement were the last chance for the future of the denomination  The unwillingness of the old guard to institute reform and the disinterest of the younger leaders to inherit their fathers&#8217; Buick has brought us to this point.</p>
<p>And, yes, I believe it is the answer to many prayers.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Smith</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1415</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1415</guid>
		<description>Marty -

As always I appreciate your insights. You have restated clearly.

Were not these the concerns written about a mere 3 years ago on Lifeway's Young Leaders' Forums? Didn't we express our thoughts then that 'The Convention' was going the way of the dinosaur and that loosely-knit cooperative fellowships of like-hearted churches - some even crossing denominational barriers - were going to emerge?

Dr. Ed's points - loss of young leaders; the hurtful, abusive infighting that appears to be the exception rather than the rule; and a return of focus on the Gospel - were the topics and thoughts of young leaders just a few years ago. Has anything changed?

I believe, just as I did then, that biblically sound local congregations will form partnerships with other churches with the same heart for their communities in order to reach the lost for Christ. Theses fellowships will replace the denominational construct we have now (kinda like the WCA.) What that does for theological education, cooperative missions effort (domestic &#38; foreign,) and resources (like Dr. Stetzer and others....) I haven't a clue.

Post-Denomination - On one hand, it has a scary, ominous feel like its lurking, waiting. On the other hand, isn't it the result of the reform prayed for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty -</p>
<p>As always I appreciate your insights. You have restated clearly.</p>
<p>Were not these the concerns written about a mere 3 years ago on Lifeway&#8217;s Young Leaders&#8217; Forums? Didn&#8217;t we express our thoughts then that &#8216;The Convention&#8217; was going the way of the dinosaur and that loosely-knit cooperative fellowships of like-hearted churches - some even crossing denominational barriers - were going to emerge?</p>
<p>Dr. Ed&#8217;s points - loss of young leaders; the hurtful, abusive infighting that appears to be the exception rather than the rule; and a return of focus on the Gospel - were the topics and thoughts of young leaders just a few years ago. Has anything changed?</p>
<p>I believe, just as I did then, that biblically sound local congregations will form partnerships with other churches with the same heart for their communities in order to reach the lost for Christ. Theses fellowships will replace the denominational construct we have now (kinda like the WCA.) What that does for theological education, cooperative missions effort (domestic &amp; foreign,) and resources (like Dr. Stetzer and others&#8230;.) I haven&#8217;t a clue.</p>
<p>Post-Denomination - On one hand, it has a scary, ominous feel like its lurking, waiting. On the other hand, isn&#8217;t it the result of the reform prayed for?</p>
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		<title>By: Marty Duren</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1412</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty Duren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1412</guid>
		<description>Norman-
You could always do a follow up ;^)  Thanks for your insights as well.

The Merritt situation was sad to me, but it was just more of the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norman-<br />
You could always do a follow up ;^)  Thanks for your insights as well.</p>
<p>The Merritt situation was sad to me, but it was just more of the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman</title>
		<link>http://iemissional.com/2008/05/05/the-impending-disintegration-of-american-denominationalism/#comment-1411</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://iemissional.com/?p=99#comment-1411</guid>
		<description>Marty,
I wish I'd have read your insights before i wrote these comments about denominations potentially becoming irrelevant: 
http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/opinion/2008/05_05_2008/ed05052008denominations.shtml

I've done a lot of work in non-profit organizations from food banks in Washington DC to children's homes in New Orleans and all points in between. And I find this to be true. Every organization is called into being by a real or deeply felt need. But, from the point of its birth, its primary purpose is the continuation of its own existence. What happens if the need is actually met? Does the organization go away? What happens if someone else creates a better way to meet the need? The problem comes with ownership, or a sense that we "own" something. That's why the ruling class of Southern Baptists after 1979 was so upset. They felt that something they owned was taken from them. That's why the ruling class in Southern Baptist life today is so keen on rule making and line drawing. They own it and they want to keep it. But it is in the clutching that the precious gift is lost. 

The fate of the creative class in SBC life is sadly and aptly demonstrated by the response to Jonathan Merritt's climate change statement. Bang, Bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon his head. If that is how those in charge receive creative thinking, they write their own death sentence for the denomination they serve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty,<br />
I wish I&#8217;d have read your insights before i wrote these comments about denominations potentially becoming irrelevant:<br />
<a href="http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/opinion/2008/05_05_2008/ed05052008denominations.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/opinion/2008/05_05_2008/ed05052008denominations.shtml</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done a lot of work in non-profit organizations from food banks in Washington DC to children&#8217;s homes in New Orleans and all points in between. And I find this to be true. Every organization is called into being by a real or deeply felt need. But, from the point of its birth, its primary purpose is the continuation of its own existence. What happens if the need is actually met? Does the organization go away? What happens if someone else creates a better way to meet the need? The problem comes with ownership, or a sense that we &#8220;own&#8221; something. That&#8217;s why the ruling class of Southern Baptists after 1979 was so upset. They felt that something they owned was taken from them. That&#8217;s why the ruling class in Southern Baptist life today is so keen on rule making and line drawing. They own it and they want to keep it. But it is in the clutching that the precious gift is lost. </p>
<p>The fate of the creative class in SBC life is sadly and aptly demonstrated by the response to Jonathan Merritt&#8217;s climate change statement. Bang, Bang Maxwell&#8217;s silver hammer came down upon his head. If that is how those in charge receive creative thinking, they write their own death sentence for the denomination they serve.</p>
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