Comments on: Presidential Politics the First http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/ teaching. glocalizing. living. serving. repenting. incarnating. loving. repeating. Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:19:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: RGH http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-729 RGH Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:02:25 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-729 Marty and Joel: Not so long ago I too was looking at Ron Paul as a choice for President. Then I watched an appearance on Meet the Press and I was so disappointed I have all but dismissed him as the biggest panderer in the race. The one exchange that stuck in my memory was this. Russert made a leading comment concerning Paul's comments about federal spending being out of control, then asked Paul about his spending record in the area of earmarks, a place where congressmen can request sometimes large amounts of money for their district. This was Pauls chance to be an agent of change and separate himself from others. His response was basically It's the system we have so I got everything I could for my district. It was disheartning to hear that when I thought I had found someone who would do the right thing instead of going along. I share everyones frustration of deciding which candidate to support. Marty and Joel:

Not so long ago I too was looking at Ron Paul as a choice for President.

Then I watched an appearance on Meet the Press and I was so disappointed I have all but dismissed him as the biggest panderer in the race.

The one exchange that stuck in my memory was this. Russert made a leading comment concerning Paul’s comments about federal spending being out of control, then asked Paul about his spending record in the area of earmarks, a place where congressmen can request sometimes large amounts of money for their district.

This was Pauls chance to be an agent of change and separate himself from others. His response was basically It’s the system we have so I got everything I could for my district. It was disheartning to hear that when I thought I had found someone who would do the right thing instead of going along.

I share everyones frustration of deciding which candidate to support.

]]> By: Marty Duren http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-698 Marty Duren Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:01:37 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-698 Joel- Sorry about the delay. Somehow it was stuck in moderation. All things should be there, you know ;^) And, I am giving RP a long, hard look. Who knows? Stranger things have happened. Joel-
Sorry about the delay. Somehow it was stuck in moderation. All things should be there, you know ;^)

And, I am giving RP a long, hard look. Who knows? Stranger things have happened.

]]> By: Joel http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-687 Joel Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:18:50 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-687 Marty, This is a great analysis. I really appreciate what you have written here. Although I have my dissagreements with you regarding Huckabee's plan (i.e. I"m with Allel Calkins above), your voiced concerns about his record as AR governor have me re-examining his record. As we say when we train folks in assessing church planters, "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." Given all you write above, I'm going to wager a guess that you are a Ron Paul supporter. Of course, you may or may not decide to respond to this guess. :) I'll tell you that I really like the guy as well, and I think the fact that candidates like Paul are not "viable" is only one indication that our nation is now "past the point of no return" and on its way to becoming more and more dependent on our government (as well as foreign governments), and subsequently, more socialist. To borrow a concept from Benjamin Franklin, if we choose financial security over liberty, we deserve neither! Thanks again for the analysis. Marty,
This is a great analysis. I really appreciate what you have written here. Although I have my dissagreements with you regarding Huckabee’s plan (i.e. I”m with Allel Calkins above), your voiced concerns about his record as AR governor have me re-examining his record. As we say when we train folks in assessing church planters, “the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”

Given all you write above, I’m going to wager a guess that you are a Ron Paul supporter. Of course, you may or may not decide to respond to this guess. :) I’ll tell you that I really like the guy as well, and I think the fact that candidates like Paul are not “viable” is only one indication that our nation is now “past the point of no return” and on its way to becoming more and more dependent on our government (as well as foreign governments), and subsequently, more socialist.

To borrow a concept from Benjamin Franklin, if we choose financial security over liberty, we deserve neither! Thanks again for the analysis.

]]> By: Beth http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-670 Beth Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:29:21 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-670 It still boils down to a tax or no tax. I'll take no tax! Plus, the focus needs to be on decreased government spending by both bringing troops home from overseas (where ever they may be) as well as eliminating government organizations and programs that are worthless and/or wasteful. Huckabee isn't talking about that nearly enough to earn my vote. It still boils down to a tax or no tax. I’ll take no tax! Plus, the focus needs to be on decreased government spending by both bringing troops home from overseas (where ever they may be) as well as eliminating government organizations and programs that are worthless and/or wasteful. Huckabee isn’t talking about that nearly enough to earn my vote.

]]> By: Allen Calkins http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-668 Allen Calkins Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:33:14 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-668 I think you do not have enough faith in market forces. If a company can gain a 20% price advantage over their competitors for even a day they would do it. I believe coprporations would reduce the price of their goods and services faster than we could say "Robin Hood". Capitalism works! Also, the Huckabee proposal would include an annual tax rebate (he calls it a prebate) to every individual to payback the taxes paid on the poverty level of income. This would make the fair/flat tax a progressive tax. The other advantage to this tax would be everyone pays. If you purchase goods and services you pay the tax. Nobody could bypass the system with unreported revenue. The flat/fair tax also does not penalize investment and savings like the present system does. Interest or capital gains are not taxed until that money is spent buying something. The opportunity to accumulate wealth would be much greater for the average American. I think you do not have enough faith in market forces. If a company can gain a 20% price advantage over their competitors for even a day they would do it. I believe coprporations would reduce the price of their goods and services faster than we could say “Robin Hood”. Capitalism works!
Also, the Huckabee proposal would include an annual tax rebate (he calls it a prebate) to every individual to payback the taxes paid on the poverty level of income. This would make the fair/flat tax a progressive tax. The other advantage to this tax would be everyone pays. If you purchase goods and services you pay the tax. Nobody could bypass the system with unreported revenue.
The flat/fair tax also does not penalize investment and savings like the present system does. Interest or capital gains are not taxed until that money is spent buying something. The opportunity to accumulate wealth would be much greater for the average American.

]]> By: John Fariss http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-657 John Fariss Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:13:06 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-657 Allen, Ditto what Micah said. Somehow I fail to see that big corporations would automatically pass on a savings in their tax structure to consumers, especially as they would not see this savings themselves for from several months up to a year. And I say that both as a consumer and having been a consultant, dealing with several large corporations, before entering the pastorate. And all that aside: does anyone really think that such a thing has a snowball's chance in the nether regions, what with all the CPA's and accounting firms (some of which are quite large and formidable themselves), tax lawyers who make their living from involvement in these issues, administrative law judges, and the massive structure of the IRS itself? Maybe, were there genuine campaign reform first, but let's face it: most of the folks in congress listen to money, and as long as this special interest can put money in their hands, they are going to listen. Allen,

Ditto what Micah said. Somehow I fail to see that big corporations would automatically pass on a savings in their tax structure to consumers, especially as they would not see this savings themselves for from several months up to a year. And I say that both as a consumer and having been a consultant, dealing with several large corporations, before entering the pastorate. And all that aside: does anyone really think that such a thing has a snowball’s chance in the nether regions, what with all the CPA’s and accounting firms (some of which are quite large and formidable themselves), tax lawyers who make their living from involvement in these issues, administrative law judges, and the massive structure of the IRS itself? Maybe, were there genuine campaign reform first, but let’s face it: most of the folks in congress listen to money, and as long as this special interest can put money in their hands, they are going to listen.

]]> By: Kevin Bussey http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-655 Kevin Bussey Sat, 29 Dec 2007 02:04:41 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-655 Can I vote for none of the above? Can I vote for none of the above?

]]> By: Marty Duren http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-653 Marty Duren Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:18:56 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-653 Or it might form the basis for a "20% off Sale" that quickly would return to normal. Or it might form the basis for a “20% off Sale” that quickly would return to normal.

]]> By: Micah Fries http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-652 Micah Fries Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:32:27 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-652 I would add, Marty, that I highly doubt any corporations would reduce the cost of their goods to compensate for a loss of corporate taxes. My guess is they would simply enjoy the added revenue. In that, the "Fair Tax" wouldn't really be all that fair at all, don't you think. I would add, Marty, that I highly doubt any corporations would reduce the cost of their goods to compensate for a loss of corporate taxes. My guess is they would simply enjoy the added revenue. In that, the “Fair Tax” wouldn’t really be all that fair at all, don’t you think.

]]> By: Marty Duren http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-651 Marty Duren Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:00:21 +0000 http://iemissional.com/2007/12/27/presidential-politics-the-first/#comment-651 Allen- Thanks for your insight. Frankly, I haven't studied "Fair Tax" all that much since, as a pastor, any "Fair" or "Flat" tax will likely be disadvantageous to me (if I lose the ability to remove "housing" from my taxable income). However, I am concerned about what is best for the country and if that means I lose my benefit then I guess that will be ok. What I'm not sure you understand is that Huckabee only represents the idea of Fair (not "Flat") Tax. Since his overall performance in Arkansas was a net gain in taxes and since Congress has never met a tax that they did not like, I have no confidence that 23% would actually be the amount that we ended up having. Still, I favor no income tax over a fair or flat version. Allen-
Thanks for your insight. Frankly, I haven’t studied “Fair Tax” all that much since, as a pastor, any “Fair” or “Flat” tax will likely be disadvantageous to me (if I lose the ability to remove “housing” from my taxable income). However, I am concerned about what is best for the country and if that means I lose my benefit then I guess that will be ok.

What I’m not sure you understand is that Huckabee only represents the idea of Fair (not “Flat”) Tax. Since his overall performance in Arkansas was a net gain in taxes and since Congress has never met a tax that they did not like, I have no confidence that 23% would actually be the amount that we ended up having.

Still, I favor no income tax over a fair or flat version.

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